Growing Up Orkin: Comedy, Creativity, and the Legacy of Dick Orkin’s CHICKENMAN with Lisa and Haris Orkin

Hang out with us for a fun conversation with Lisa Orkin and Harris Orkin — daughter and son of legendary radio writer, actor, and producer Dick Orkin. Dick Orkin, the mind behind the iconic radio serial “Chickenman” and the creative powerhouse The Famous Radio Ranch, was hailed by Newsweek as the pioneer of “The Advertising Theater of the Absurd.” He revolutionized audio advertising with his use of deadpan comedy, memorable characters, and situational humor, setting a new standard for creative storytelling in audio.

Meet Our Guests:

• Lisa Orkin is a comedian, actor, writer, and audio director renowned for her unique blend of comedy, storytelling, and marketing across radio, film, and digital audio platforms. She’s also known for her podcast production work, distinctive voice acting, and creative leadership at The Radio Ranch.
• Harris Orkin is a multi-medium storyteller — author, playwright, screenwriter, video game narrative designer, and voice director. He’s best known for his BAFTA and WGA-nominated scripts for the Resident Evil video games and for his James Flynn Escapades spy comedy novels.

 The PAGE International Screenwriting Awards sponsors the WRITERS' HANGOUT.
Executive Producer Kristin Overn
Executive Producer/CreatorSandy Adomaitis
Producer Terry Sampson
Music by Ethan Stoller

Transcript

0:12

Hello. My name is Sandy Adamidas, the social media director for the Page International Screenwriting Awards, and your host for The Writers Hangout, a podcast that celebrates the many stages of writing, from inspiration to the first draft, revising, getting the project made, and everything in between. We'll talk to the best and the brightest in the entertainment industry and create a space where you can hang out, learn from the pros, and have fun. Hey writers, it's Sandi. I'm coming to you from Studio City, California, the crown jewel of the San Fernando Valley, And where everyone is beefing with nearby Universal Studios Hollywood over the overwhelming noise coming from the new Fast and Furious Hollywood Drift roller coaster. The ride is only in its soft launch phase, and it is reported that the intense screaming from passengers is echoing directly into the nearby Toluca Lake and Studio City neighborhoods. Local residents report that the shrieks occur every 30 to 40 seconds and sound like bloody murder. I haven't heard the yelling, but I will say sometimes late at night you can hear the screams of writers echoing through the canyons during pilot season. You know what upsets me about Universal? That massive Minion eyeball that sits atop Universal Studios and watches your every move. Writers, I had a lot of fun interviewing my next guests, Lisa Orkin and Harris Orkin, the daughter and son of the legendary radio writer, actor, and producer Dick Orkin, creator of the iconic radio series Chicken Man, and establishing the creative commercial production house, The Famous Radio Ranch, dubbed by Newsweek as the pioneer of the advertising theater of the absurd, Orkin revolutionized audio advertising by using deadpan comedy, rich character acting, and situational humor instead of aggressive in-your-face sales pitches. He was a man before his time. Before we get started, a little bit about Lisa and Harris. Lisa Orkin is a comedian, actor, writer, and audio director. When she's not doing stand-up, she has blended comedy, storytelling, and marketing across radio, film, and digital audio platforms, and is widely known for her extensive podcast production work, her distinctive voice acting roles, and her creative leadership at the audio ad agency the Radio Ranch. Harris Orkin is a multimedia storyteller who works as a author, playwright, screenwriter, video game narrative designer, and voice director. He is best known for writing BAFTA and WGA-nominated video game scripts like Resident Evil Requiem, as well as his James Flynn Escapades spy comedy novel series. Lisa and Harris share family stories, behind-the-scenes memories of growing up with one of radio's most creative minds, and the lessons today writers can learn from a career built on originality, persistence, and imagination. We also talk about stand-up comedy, podcasting, screenwriting, video game writing, and why creativity still matters more than ever. I am going to add some of Chicken Man, some of the spots at the end of the podcast, so keep listening to the very end, And let's start the show. Lisa Orkin and Harris Orkin, thank you so much for being on The Writers' Hangouts. welcome. You're very welcome. I think this is the first time I've had a brother and sister on. Uh-huh. now Lisa your dad, Dick Orkin, began his radio career at 16 as a fill-in announcer at WKOK in Sunbury, Pennsylvania. How did your parents meet? Well, there's different stories. there's one story that my parents were at a pool and, my mom was looking in the mirror at herself and somebody said something and he goes, "Thank you," and it was not about him, and that's how they met. But the other story is that she was, there was all these boys around her at the pool, and he saw her there and that's the story I know, Harris. Do you know a different story? Yeah, that's the one Mom told, I think. Yeah. Yeah. where'd your dad go to college and what did he study? he went to, Franklin Marshall College in Pennsylvania. And he started out as pre-med, but then he became a drama student 'cause he realized how much he liked acting. his, classmate at Franklin Marshall, was Roy Scheider. was in Jaws and, and- All That Jazz. And they were both like the stars of the stage at, Franklin Marshall, though Roy mostly did the comedic parts and my dad did the dramatic stuff. that is like right out of a movie. He went for med school and came out an actor. Yeah. He realized he was not great at pre-med classes. I think- But he really loved acting, and he ended up going to Yale Drama School after. Whoa, get out of town. Yeah. That is really prestigious. Yeah. So he was there, and I was a little baby then, so I don't remember. I was six months old, so. Though my mother does tell the tale of Carrie Nye, who was Dick Cavett's wife- Wife at the time. Who looked at me and were like, "Ew, I don't want one of those." Oh my goodness. I think what I heard, Harris, was that she said- Yeah "Oop, I'd rather have cats." Oh, I think you're right. Do you think his parents, your grandparents, were happy that he went from pre-med- No. No. They were not happy at all. The last thing they wanted was an actor. I hope him getting into Yale softened the blow a little bit. Oh, no. No. They never understood. No, they never understood it. until the very end, They still were like, "Are you sure you don't wanna go to medical school?" Yeah. That would've been much more prestigious for them, um, Sunbury, Pennsylvania sounds delightful to me. Have you ever been there? No. No, I've never been there. I don't, I think it was a coal town. I don't know how delightful it really was, but I do think- Now that's where Little League is, the big Little League I do forget about that when I'm, thinking of Pennsylvania, that it was filled with coal miners. Mm-hmm. And what an incredibly tough life that was. Yeah. They lived in coal country. My grandfather's father had a big general store and one of the first gas stations, But, they definitely came from that hardscrabble life. and my dad actually, when he got his first paying job, was in Lancaster, which is, you know, Pennsylvania Dutch country. It's also not far from Harrisburg, the capital, so it was a bigger town. he was the news director at WLAN in Lancaster, Historically, radio professionals have frequently had to relocate to accept job offers, did that happen to your dad, and where did your family land? after at WLAN, he got hired by KYW in Cleveland, which was a really big station. he was the news director there, public affairs director. And that's where he met the people who he eventually moved to WCFL in Chicago with, which was like three years later. And CFL was one of two huge rock stations in Chicago at that time. WLS was the other one, though my dad was not into rock and roll. Nope. He liked like show tunes, older kind of music. And, he would get all these records. He could be bringing back The Rolling Stones or The Beatles, but he brought back Broadway cast albums. I would take the Broadway cast albums. Yeah. And he'd bring home comedy albums, too- Mm-hmm which I loved, you know. So, of course at the time Bill Cosby. Now it's like in retrospect And I remember he had- He was- Was it like- Yeah. But they were great albums. They were. There was like a Milton Berle like- I think it, or maybe it wasn't Milton Berle that was- Oh, Jack Benny you're thinking of. Yeah. Jack Benny, yeah. It had some, scary stuff on there too. I loved that album. Yeah, that was Arch Oboler. Yeah, so I w- I got, really got into radio drama and comedy listening to all those albums, Do you have any of those old records that, he brought home to you kids? No. No. No, I don't know what happened to those, but no, Lisa, I heard a sharp no when it came to rock and roll with your dad. Oh, yeah. Did you and your dad butt heads with your rock and roll No, he just didn't like it at all. I just recently heard, though... So I like a mellow rock and roll. yacht? Yeah, a little bit. M- Okay no, no, maybe more like a Patty, Griffin kind of thing. but my brother Mike just told me whenever he was in the car with my dad, he just wanted to listen to news. Yeah. But when I was in the car with him, he'd let me listen to whatever I wanted. Aw. Yeah. Yeah. Daddy's girl. maybe he mellowed later. 'Cause it was the same with me. I remember listening to, I was really into Bob Dylan, and Dad hated Bob Dylan, at the time anyway, in terms of the music. He just didn't understand it at all, n- a, a lot of people didn't, I have so many questions. Did you guys move as a family, or did your dad go first? Or were you used to moving by then? I know you were little babies back then, but do you remember much? Yeah, we, we moved as a family. I mean, my dad would go out and scope it out really q- quick. Like in, in Chicago, they told him what neighborhood to go to, which was Highland Park, but the story goes he just turned on a different exit, and so we ended up in a different neighborhood than Highland Park- Oh which probably- Yes wasn't as good for us in certain ways. Um- Well, except for the Jewish neighborhood, it was, uh, Irish Catholic which is great, honestly. Yeah. But all our friends were Irish Catholic and Polish Catholic. Yeah, we would've been different, we would've been different people if we would've grown up in Highland Park. So yeah, he liked doing everything as a family. We kinda went everywhere with my parents. Yeah Did you get pulled out of school? Did they wait for the summer to happen before you guys moved? I was, like, nine years old when we moved to Chicago. I think we did move in the summer, 'cause I remember starting fourth grade in the s- in the fall. So yeah, I guess we moved in the summer. I think we moved in the summer when we moved to Los Angeles too. But we only moved a few times. He didn't really wanna work, as a radio direct- like, he didn't want, that's not what he wanted to do. He wanted to be creative. when he graduated from Yale, he really wanted to go to New York and become an actor. But instead, because I was around, he decided to take a job in radio to make a living, so you know, 'cause he had a family. So it's all Harris's fault. yeah, he would say that to me. Yeah. Yeah. Did you guys like Chicago? Oh, yeah. I mean, that's all, that's all we knew, it's where we grew up, so yeah. And I have to ask, guys, how cold was it? It was too cold. I did not have a good time in Chicago. I was just a very skinny, runty- little Jewish girl, and no one ever let me forget that. And when I came to LA, I was like, "Oh, my people. These are people that are all different. They're people by color and all different colors," and I liked it much better. I'm about seven years older than Lisa, so I had a different experience. But you know, we were in Pennsylvania, which was also cold. Yeah. So all I knew was cold. Though I did know, I would watch the Rose Parade every year in Chicago, and I would think, "Why did people move here? Why didn't we, everyone move there?" Yeah. Much warmer. I think that was always my dad's idea, was to get to California. Yes. Like a true actor in his heart. Yeah. He just wanted to get to LA. One more thing, just to double back. When you talk about Highland Park, for the writers out there who don't know or don't remember, that is the location of Home Alone, and I'm completely blanking out on the wonderful writer-director, his name. Oh, yeah. He, oh, God, it's going out of my mind now too. I can't believe I've- I actually had a meeting with him, too. Yeah, but- I've, don't you forget about me. I, I've even done an episode on him, and I'm completely blanking. But Highland Park, beautiful, and just so the writers can kinda picture it in their mind from that movie. Now while at WCFL, and Harris, you said at one point CFL. you're supposed to drop the W 'cause they all had W in front of them? Yeah, it depends on it, what side of the country you're on. it changed when you went from the West Coast to the East Coast. But in Chicago every one had a W in front of them, every station, yeah. Now, the program director, I love, his name was Ken Draper, which makes me think of Don Draper from that- He was ki- he was kind of like that. He's kind of like him. He was. Now, he was inspired by the success of the Batman TV show that was on at the time. asked your dad, "Put together a two and a half minute, some comedy," and your dad came up with something. Can you guys talk about that? Yeah. I mean, you know, he, he actually asked them to come up with a two-and-a-half minute comedy show for every single one of the DJs, and they wanted They all were gonna be s- different superheroes. Oh. But the o- the one that stuck was Chicken Man. Which was a, this kind of dweeby guy who decided he wanted to be a superhero, and went out and went to a costume shop to get a costume to be one. And, it was between a fuzzy bunny and the chicken suit, he ended up with the chicken suit because when he wore the fuzzy bunny, someone kissed him, he's a big old chicken scared of everything, That's so fascinating that they were gonna do all the DJs and have them be, superheroes. But, ugh, let's face it, probably the evening DJs couldn't get to any of the meetings I think they did it for all of them, actually. But they just, the one that stuck was Chicken Man. Yeah. I don't remember what the other ones were, but- also, DJs are notoriously bad actors. They're great at, they're great announcers, but notoriously bad actors, when I was listening to Chicken Man, I was laughing, and I immediately recognized your dad's voice. He's had a great voice, and he did a lot of commercials and a lot of advertising. Can each of you try to do the famous catchphrase? He's everywhere, he's everywhere. Yeah. It, it was like a chorus of women's. Yeah. You were saying that. He's everywhere, he's everywhere. Yeah. There's that. I love that. Chicken Man. Yeah. He's everywhere, he's everywhere. Yeah. I love that, and I think they did it in the beginning and at the end, so it really caught on. Your dad knew what he was doing. You know what? I think he was Mr. Magoo. Really? Yeah. I love Mr. Magoo. He, he was kind of backed into it too. I don't know. I think he just- Yeah made sense in his head, so that's what he did. Oh, that's adorable. I don't think he ever thought things that way. Old, when he got older he did, but I don't, I think that shifted. Also when I think about it old, everything old is new again because we're now obsessed with verticals, online. Mm-hmm. And they are quick vignettes, very quick, paced, serials. That's true. Mm-hmm. And that's what your dad was doing. they were just meant to fit in between, all the commercials and the songs. 'Cause, it was a rock 'n' roll station, so they just wanted these little tiny, they didn't want it to go on too long, but just long enough for it to get people's attention and make people laugh. Chicken Man ended up being, syndicated all across the country. radio stations all across the country started playing it after he left CFL. he took it with him, and it was, like, very big on Armed Forces Radio in Vietnam. I have patches from Vietnam that's a Chicken Man patch. Yeah, there was- Oh there was a helicopter group and that was their call sign, Chicken Man. when we actually did the memorial for my dad, we got a letter from s- the person who was one of the, people in that group talking about how they could listen to Chicken Man for a little while. it would take them out of, you know, the horror they were in, and they could kinda, laugh, and it was just a good escape. It was kinda like, Good Morning Vietnam. That would be a show that would be running during, Robin William's show, really, Chicken Man, how wonderful, and that must really make you proud. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. it's a lot of work. It's, you know, it sounds easy to "Oh, it's just two minutes." But he wrote a lot of them, and did you get to see his process? Did he ever talk about that with you? He wrote on a yellow legal pad with a felt tip pen. And he would do all the voices out loud, and so I could remember sitting and listening to him do the voices out loud while he was writing. I think Harris and I both write like that too. one of the things I remember is him practicing like the bok, bok" he would be in his workshop, and I remember him doing that in the workshop and me not being able to figure out what was going on. What's the workshop? Is that the office or the garage? Uh, no. Was that- He had an actual workshop with a lathe and a- In the basement. He had like a- In the basement. A saw. Yeah, like a radial arm- Oh saw. No, I mean, he loved like home building projects even though he wasn't really good at it. Really bad at it, yeah. But, yeah, it, but it was his huge... And we- he would make my brother and I go down there like to hold boards as he would cut them on the radial arm saw. And he's very- It was terrifying 'cause of the- Yeah yeah. He was very clumsy so, It's amazing nobody lost a- a limb. he liked to fish too, he was quite the fisherman. And- he would hook me. I mean, we'd be on a boat and he was, casting back, and he hooked me in the ear with his hook. And, I had to actually go to the hospital with the fishing reel attached to my head with the hook to get the hook out. And one time he, he hooked his finger and then hooked it to his pants. He did. He, he, it got stuck on his, like, zipper area. Yeah. Tried to push it out and it went through his thumb. Oh. And that time he also had to drive to the hospital- with his thumb stuck to his zipper and to have it removed. Yeah. Just the hook, not his thumb. Yeah. But yeah. No, yeah. Yeah, nothing else. Nothing under the zipper, just, yeah. Yeah, yeah. He got to keep his... Yeah, just the zipper. The legal pads, are they anywhere? Do you still have them? No, we are not a precious family. That is, we just, things just disappear. We don't, we just really are not... we probably should have kept them. We didn't know. and he didn't care about that. He never- He was always moving on to the next thing. He was just- He never cared. Yeah. Yeah. What's interesting 'cause I worked for him for a while we had, these giant stacks at the office of legal pads, and that's how I learned to write. And all the things I would write for years I wrote on yellow legal pads. Same way, I still have a lot of my legal pads, actually. Yeah. So whether it's movie scripts or books, it's like I was writing them on yellow legal pads. Now I do everything on, on computer, Also, your dad got to leave the station, and they let him walk away with Chicken Man, which that must attribute to how much they really liked your dad. Oh, I think he had a good, he had a good lawyer. Oh, good. There you go. Wow. 'Cause I would, I- you would think that the station would want to keep all the rights to Chicken Man. You know what? I don't think they thought it was worth that much, honestly. he probably bought it from them for, a pretty small amount. It's interesting. I actually wrote a song for this video game I worked on I just wrote the lyrics, and, they didn't think it was, like, that big a deal or was gonna do anything, and we asked for the rights to it, and they just gave it to us, and I've been making a couple thousand a year off that song for the last 10 years. Really? Yeah, yeah, because I think companies sometimes don't realize what they have. Good for you. Can we download it anywhere it's on YouTube. Yeah. It's, Who Do You Voodoo, Bitch, is what it's called. Yeah, for a while, I was, like, the oldest, whitest person with a, with a record on the hip hop charts on Amazon. That is so cool. Jane Roberts- Mm-hmm I forget what she d- oh, she did traffic. And she became Mrs. Helfinger, that name makes me laugh every single- Oh, yeah time. And it's one L H-E-L Finger. And what luck. that she was there and she was just so good. Did your dad ever talk about Jane? he just thought she was fantastic. you know, a lot, like a lot of people go into radio, like my dad, who had other ambitions too, and so in Chicago, had, had Second City and the big theater community. There are a lot of great actors in Chicago. So later when he did commercials, he would draw on them, to do a lot of his shows. 'Cause he did a lot of other shows besides Chicken Man Yeah, there was Tooth Fairy, Oh, yeah, what was the Tooth Fairy? It was a tooth fairy, but there was like a catch to the Tooth Fairy? Um, he was just a tooth fairy and he went out into the world and did things. I don't really... It's so funny, I missed- It was kinda like, yeah, it was kinda like Chicken Man. It was just some idiot who decided that he should be the Tooth Fairy. Actually, what happened was he woke up one night and his father was putting the tooth under his pillow, and he decided his father had to be the Tooth Fairy. So when his father died, he decided he needed to be the Tooth Fairy. Oh, that's right. Yeah. it's because all of us kids were losing teeth and he was playing the Tooth Fairy all the time. What was the going rate back in your day? I don't know. Was it 25 cents, Harris? Yeah, I think it was like a quarter there's four kids. It's a quarter. Yeah. what are your siblings' names? Lynn and Mike. Lynn and Mike. Harris and Lisa. Mm-hmm. What a, what a nice sounding family. Mm-hmm. Yeah, they both became teachers. Oh, really? Mm-hmm. Yeah. So you went into the entertainment business, and then you have two teachers. Yeah. Yep. Are they still teaching? where are they? One's retired, and my sister's still teaching. They're both in LA. and honestly, I think they are the funniest people in the family. They're both funny, yeah. And, I know Mike used a lot of humor teaching, his third graders. Yeah. Mike might be the funniest, one of the funniest people I know. Mike, come on the pod. Let's talk about your kids. Yeah. He would hate that. Oh, really? Okay. Mike. Yeah. Stay where you are. Yeah. any behind the scenes stories about Chicken Man? he used to make appearances all the time, Chicken Man. They'd fly my dad at, fairs and stuff. Stop. Yeah, and so he would, they would fly him up. I'm sure that hurt. It was very painful from what I hear. he was in a chicken suit, which they got from the Folies Bergère. it was like this chicken suit. It was, it was Bee Ziggy, Lisa, found that suit for him, and, and then he wore that suit for a long time. how much fun your dad was having? Yeah. He did. I mean, he enjoyed it, yeah. Yeah, I mean, he, he was doing Chicken Man, and he had, I think a show that toured colleges that was, like, a different character around the same time. Yeah, it was, Trash of the '30s, so it was like a 1930s Vaudeville show. He was Ramon LaRue it was his- Yeah. Yeah. And they went to colleges all around the country and did the show, yeah. he was a very funny character. Very funny walk. Yeah, it was a really cool... I remember that was really fun going with them to see that. And they, they did it as a, a, a show on a local Chicago station, like, for, like, it was a movie host. So they would show 1930s movies, and he would be the host of them on TV. He sat in a chair- Yeah and the chair would get lower and lower as the night went on. He'd sink into the chair. It was very funny. He also had a show called, was it The Whoopee Show, Harris? Yeah, Club Whoopee. Yeah. Club Whoopee, which- That, that was it. That was Ramon. That was the show. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, yeah. So right, and sometimes he'd have, like, guests on there and stuff. Yeah. Club Whoopee. I cannot love that any more than I love it. That is so funny, Club Whoopee. So that, and that, and that was along the same time as Svengoolie was, was starting up. Yeah. And, which is still on. And Svengoolie, Rich Cos wrote Chicken Man episodes for my dad, too. He worked together for a while. And he's still Svengoolie. he would introduce horror movies, and he's still on the air on MeTV. He's been doing the show for 40 years. And, he was just at Comic-Con. that's amazing, Can the writers out there access Chicken Man? Yeah. Can they listen to it? Where can they listen to Chicken Man? It's on iTunes, it's on Spotify, it's on YouTube. There's always someone on YouTube that shouldn't be running it, So if you go on YouTube under Dick Orkin, that's where it is, and you'll see the full playlist. Great. And Lisa, I don't mean to put you on the spot, but can I put one of, one or two of these at the end of the episode? Yeah, absolutely. Oh, great. Good. Now Lisa, you are an actor and a stand-up comedian. Mm-hmm. And I'm switching gears here If someone wanted to start doing stand-up tomorrow, what would you tell them? What advice do you have for them? Oh my gosh. It takes, like, eight years to become a stand-up is really the deal, and so go have fun. That's all my advice is just go have fun. Sure. 'Cause it gets to be really, really difficult if you try to make a living at it, so maybe just go play. Yeah, those days are kind of gone. Would you say that was, what was that, the '90s where Seinfeld got a show and Grace Under Fire, Roseanne. It still happens, just in different ways. Like, what's her name? The Southern comic who just got a TV show, on Netflix. Yeah, Kevin Hart has a bunch of deals with networks, and has a bunch of different kinds of shows. And so, it still exists. There's actually a giant comedy boom in LA right now. It's- Really? There's no... There is comedy every minute of the day all over the city, all kinds. Is it in the usual places, the Improv and the Comedy Store- Well- There's all these weird places that pop up, like Maria Bamford's always doing, like, weird pop-up shows at 8:00 AM. Do you have any favorite comedians right now Well, I'm a huge Marc Maron fan. I feel like Marc Maron is my sort of go-to comedian. I think he's so good. But there's also, at Largo there's there's lots of great comedians at Largo, which is in LA, and it's a weird, cool venue and, you just never know what's gonna be there. And there's... Like, Sarah Silverman'll be there and bring a bunch of friends, and so it's j- it's just really cool. is it, still the same where you kinda hang around for a club for a little while, and then the next step is you get there and put your name on the list, and you kinda wait all night, and you hope you can get up there- No as, you know? No. No, they actually have signups ahead of time called Slotted. And so if you're gonna do, like, a mic like that, you just go on Slotted, and you sign up, and you know what time you're get- going on. The older comedians must just look at the younger comedians with, "You have no idea." Oh, I'm constantly saying that to the young comedians. "You don't know what it's like." Yeah. Um- "You stood on Sunset Boulevard for three hours" Yeah, for an hour. Yeah. But I was very lucky. I got into the Comedy Store pretty quickly, and, so I had pretty much booked stuff, and then I kinda went off on my own and booked my own stuff, so I was pretty lucky. Harris, the talent just keeps going with you. You are a playwright, a screenwriter, a game writer, and a novelist, a WGA and BAFTA award-nominated narrative designer whose credits include more than a dozen video games, including Resident Evil: Requiem and Call of Juarez: Can you tell us about Your novels, The The James Flynn Escapades? I wanted to do an updated version of Don Quixote 'cause I love that. And, of course, I also realized after I did these that Chicken Man is actually an updated version of Don Quixote. So I'm als- I'm actually kind of doing Chicken Man in, in these books. It's about a mental patient in Pasadena who believes he's an international super spy, that the hospital is the headquarters for Her Majesty's Secret Service, and that, he basically, he thinks he's not James Bond, but someone like James Bond. And, over the course of the books, he's, escaped to save the world. And whether the world wanted saving or not, he was gonna save it. And he found others like kind of super villain types who in their own way were just as crazy as he was and, ended up foiling these plots. And I'm on the seventh book in the series is coming out next April. And I, actually optioned the series to these, producers who are trying to get it set up as a streaming show. Wow, congratulations. Yeah. But the books are fun to write and, they're just comedy thrillers. they sound so charming and funny, I can't wait to read them. And I love the fact that The penny dropped one day and you realized you were just updating Chicken Man in a way. I was, I did. When did you realize that? You know, it was funny. You would think I would've realized it immediately, but it wasn't. It was, like, probably four books in, I'm like, "Wait a second, I'm just doing Chicken Man." And this is just some d- dweeby guy The difference in mine, I guess, is that Flynn is so convinced he is, a James Bond character, that everyone else around him kinda believes it as well, he actually is, very masterful and, attractive to women and can do, speak three languages and, but he taught himself all this basically in the mental hospital, so you know. Because of what you write about, do you get a lot of spy gifts? Are people giving you spy pens on your birthday? Do you get James Bond memorabilia? No, I don't, but that'd be great. I do get memorabilia, James Bond memorabilia. I, and I am a huge James Bond fanatic, and that's why I wrote these Flynn books partly, 'cause, from the age of, nine, I, when I went to saw my first James Bond movie, and it was the height of the '60s, I was really into that whole thing. Though, you know, by the time I was in my 20s, I realized that James Bond is probably the worst spy who ever lived. Everyone knows who he is. He never really investigates anything but just kinda stumbles into crap. So in a way it was already kind of a comedy. so it wasn't much to, tweak it a little bit. I agree, but he knew how to turn on every shower automatically in any hotel he went into, he did, that's true. The, you're right, that would be a problem. I would always, like, turn on the hot water first- and burn myself, and then it's like, yeah. I was gonna ask you, are you a little bit like a James Flynn? do you see yourself in your character? No, I'm definitely more Chicken Man than James Flynn. I'm, yeah, I'm very, I mean, I'm good at writing physical comedy because my whole life is, full of physical comedy, I recently lost a bunch of weight. "This is embarrassing, but I'm gonna say it on, the podcast," I was, crossing the street, in town, and my pants fell down. Ah. It's like, okay. Ah. I guess I'm gonna go buy some smaller pants. Oh, my God. Dad would've loved that. Oh. I'm great. Where are you, Harris? Are you up north? You're not in LA, right? No, I'm in, Ashland, Oregon. my wife and I moved up here about, seven years ago. So- Oh, how do you like it? I like it a lot. I lived in big cities all my life, so it's kinda nice- living in, like, a smaller town that, But it's, very- artsy. There's a Shakespeare Festival here, and lots of music and theater, I was just thinking back to James Bond. Do you have an actor in mind for the next James Bond? I know that's, the big controversy is who's gonna take over the role. Oh, yeah. You know, Aaron Taylor Johnson, he played the lead in Kick Ass, and he was in Bullet Train, And, I think and he's gonna be in this new movie called Werewolf. he's just very charming. But he also has, he seems kind of dangerous. And I kind of lean, I think much more towards that than you know, Roger Moore. Cool. Yeah. Hey, Lisa, you produce podcasts what are the creatives, the podcasters or the wannabe podcasters doing right or wrong when trying to start a podcast? By the way, guys, that was such a horrible transition. I hope I can smooth it in editing, but I don't think I can. Lisa, What, are podcasters doing right or wrong nowadays? I think they're trying to sound like everybody else. I think they're just, "Here's the model on how to do a podcast," and then they just try to do that. And I think they forget that, You can do anything on audio. I mean, it's all video too now as well, but there's... They could just be so much more creative. it's a lot of talking heads, and I feel like dig a little deeper, and when you make your intro or outro, just think about it a little bit. You know, just it's a creative endeavor. I also think people start them for... I'm not sure the reasons they're starting them. I think curious people should have podcasts. I like that. You're right. bringing a world to your audience is what, I like about podcasts. Yeah, exactly. And so I think that's what's missing, is that you can just bring a whole amazing world to someone. and even on YouTube when it's talking heads, you can do that too, but it's just a lot of... There's a lot of chat out there, and I just think where- Yes how, how can we shift it? And look, I work for plenty of people who wanna just do straight-on podcasts, so. Or if they don't, they have no idea what they're doing, I really... What I liked about what you said is, possibly you've not been in the entertainment industry and you decide to do a podcast. Show your personality in the intro and the outro. And you can do straight stuff in between, but really try to engage at the beginning and the end at least. Yeah. And you'll get better as you go along. Yeah. That's a really good, easy tip. Yeah. I ha- I did a podcast. I did 100 episodes of a podcast, and it still does really, really well, called Project WooWoo, where- I made my friends, my comic friends, play people I always wanted to talk to. So Abe Lincoln, Mary Lincoln- Awesome God Jesus Dr. Phil, my boyfriend played what's her name, the sex therapist for me, Dr. Ruth. I love that idea. What is it again Project Woo, W-O-O W-O-O what is a typical writing day like for you guys? Well for me, honestly, I've just, done it for a long time, but I treat it like a, just a regular job. I get up and f- have coffee, and I just start writing, and I'll just try to write usually for four to six hours a day. whether I'm working on a video game or a novel or anything, it's, I, you know, it's the same process. I just start working and start writing. The, I mean, the hardest part ab- about being a writer I think is just keeping your butt in the chair. And so I just make a process of it and I make sure I do it every day. There's this book on writing by, I think James Gardner on becoming a novelist, and, what he talks about is you do it long enough, you start to get, automatically get into a k- kind of flow state. and when you're in that flow state it, everything comes much easier. so I just do it every single day. I write seven days a week, but, on weekends, I'll just write for two or three hours. But I just do it every day. I just make a practice of it, Harris, can you feel when you're in the flow state? Is there a click mentally, yeah, it's almost like when you're starting a car that won't start, and it's kind of rattles and it's like it's very difficult to get moving. Yeah. It's like when I first start writing, it's like things are not coming to me very quickly. And then when I'm in the flow state, it's like the dialogue will just flow, the words, you know, the prose will just flow. And that's a good day. It is, you know. And it's... There will be times where I'll be going really well and all of a sudden I'll hit a wall, and I'll have to like kind of go around the wall to keep the flow going. I'm not really a believer in, writer's block. I just feel like you just gotta keep going and you'll break through it. Yeah. You just have to maybe change your angle. You know, if you're hitting a writer's block, it's because maybe you're not thinking things through correctly, and you have to kind of reconceive what you're doing. Lisa, same question. Now you're writing your stand-up material, and you're writing podcast episodes, and- I'm writing commercials, yeah. And I, and I, I write a little bit of everything, and I write... I have a Substack that I write on, and, what is that Substack? I think it... I don't even remember what it's called. So I... And I probably post on there twice a month. I'll just write like an essay on there. And I can also put it in the show notes. Okay. I write best in the morning. So for me to get up at like 6:30 with some coffee and, just sit in the corner on my couch with my laptop is usually my best place to write. I also write in my head before I write it on paper. So I will go walk for hours or hike, and then I will come back and put it on paper. But I'll sort of work it all out through my head comedy-wise. with essays, I I usually just, it's like I has to do it, I have to do it, so I have to do it, so then I just gotta get it out and do it. And commercials, you know, it's just work. You just, when you have to write it, you write it, you know? And I don't like to wait. I will put off everything in my life, but writing I don't because I find if I put off something and I write it at the last minute, it won't be the best of it. I need to give myself time so that I can rewrite it a bunch of times, because if I don't, I As, as we're putting the, recording the commercial, in my head I'm like, "Oh, I didn't go far enough," or I, there was, there's a better idea within that idea that I should've found, you know? So, I try to give myself time cause I'm al- I feel like I'm always on a time restraint, so I try to just give myself time, so. And then stand-up I write on stage a lot. So I write it on stage and then it comes home and gets put into paper. So you have an idea what you're going to talk about, and you start riffing on stage? I do. I'm a very good improviser. That is impr- that is impressive. Yeah, it's one of my hidden skills, and I'm a very good improviser, and I'm very fast on my feet, especially when I'm in panic mode on stage. So the combination of it, like it's a... I'll record it, and then I can bring it home and just go, "Oh, out of 10 minutes, there was one good joke there that's usable." But there's a lot of funny stuff, but maybe there's one actual joke that I know will work over and over again. And then sometimes I'll just keep working the same bit when I know it's funny and I can't find all the pieces over and over again on stage until I find it Maron does that same technique. That's interesting, yeah. that's probably why I relate to him. Yeah. For both of you, what is the biggest challenge as a writer, and how do you overcome it? for me it's, is continuing to believe that what I'm doing is good. Yeah, that for me too. I think it's just I'm overly critical, and so I start to think it's all ridiculous, Lisa, do you use, a yellow legal pad like Harris and your dad? I do when I'm doing notes when I'm in like a brainstorming session with people, I will use a legal pad. but I write only on a computer, and I mostly, I... The computer works much better for me. My, I have a hard hand to brain doesn't work well for me, so computers, I didn't really start writing until computers because I just had lots of learning disabilities and had a hard time writing on paper. Me too. We're gonna have to have lunch- Yeah and talk about our our legal pads. Yeah. You're just around, you're around the corner. Can you hear the siren too? absolutely. Now Harris, you wrote the book, Professional Techniques for Video Games, which is a no-nonsense guide to the professional craft of video game writing. Any advice for writers trying to break into the video game? I actually I just wrote one chapter in that book. I'm part of the International Game Developers Association, and that, that... they put that book out. Okay. So, and I've written like chapters for a couple books on writing games. I would say it's a game business is going through a tough time right now, a lot of people being let go. there was like a huge amount of investment after, COVID but a lot of that investment is now going to AI, so The video game business has lost a lot of money, in terms of investment, but the games are still selling well. I mean, the game I wrote this year is maybe the top-selling game of the year so far. what's the name of that game? Oh, that's Resident Evil: Requiem. so there's still, it's cyclical, but, so if you're interested in doing it, I think, you just have to go for it. But the way you do it is you learn how to write, learn how to do dramatic writing, like, playwriting and screenwriting, writing novels, comic books. People come out of all different areas. But you need to like spend a lot of time, that 10,000-hour rule, getting really good at writing, and then you can bring it into the video game world. And a lot of people who, work as writers in video games also learn other skills in that the, you know, they become level designers or game designers or artists so you have other skills you can bring to the table besides your writing. This- I think that's a great tip. That is really good. Let's hang a lantern on that. say that again. Oh, that it's good to have a, another skill you can bring to the table if you wanna write video games. If you can be a, like a game designer or a level designer or a producer or an artist, it gives you, another reason to be there helping work, on designing the game. so it's a combination of things. It's very competitive, uh, you know, to get in to become a game writer, so any way you can figure out to... It's like, trying to break into being a screenwriter- took seven years before I sold a screenplay. it's a similar kind of thing with games, honestly. 'cause games are basically giant interactive movies now. They're, writing a game is very much like writing a, a long, very long movie. it's like- a typical game is, maybe, five or six screenplay length, wow. And so do they pay you five or 10 times more than a screenwriter? They pay you... No, they do not. Screenwriters make a lot more money, unfortunately. Yeah. When I was working as a screenwriter, I definitely made more, but I, it's more, writing games has been much more consistent work for me- Yeah which has been good, so- Good that's the trade-off. there's no union for game writing, do you think they'll unionize? You know, I w- I'm part of the D- WGA, and I was actually part of the group of people trying to get games companies to unionize writers. They do use union actors, a lot of the times, but not writers and, you know, no one else, no other game devs- Mm are unionized. But it was really difficult. We were getting, making progress with the companies in Europe, but not in the US, so I don't know. I really do hope that they get to unionize, because as all three of us know, this town will eat you up and just having a union can really help. It makes a huge difference. I had health insurance because of the union. I have a pension because of the union. You know, I wouldn't otherwise, what do you want people to remember about your dad, the talented Dick Orkin? I think it would be great for people to experience the creative work he did. I think they'll remember him fondly if they do because he just will make them laugh Yeah. I think that's it. I just think he took people out of their own thoughts and just gave them escape, and funny escapes. And, he was also a very kind man. As, besides that- That- he was always a very kind but I think that he just let people lose themselves, you know, in listening to his work. the character he played was such, such an every man, kind of a schlemiel. it's like someone you can identify with, just a regular person trying to survive and picking a strange way to do it but somebody you could really identify with- Mm 'cause everyone feels like that sometimes, right? Yes. guys, You have just spent so much time here Before we go, would you like to share your socials, Or Lisa, are you gonna be anywhere performing soon? I have a good show coming up at The Comedy Store. I'm doing the alumni show in August on the 12th. So it's all, old comedians who were regulars at The Comedy Store back when Mitzi was there. And so that's gonna be a really good show. And then also my Instagram is pretty active. There's some really funny posts on there. Got some big numbers on there. So Lisa Orkin Graham. And stupidly made it Lisa Orkin Graham. I thought that was funny when Instagram first started. Oh. And now people think my name is Lisa Orkin Graham. And I can't change it. They won't let me change it. I do have an author Facebook page. This is probably the most active of all, but even that's not that active. And my web- website you can go to harrisorkin.com, which you'll see all the games and books. That's probably the best place to find information about me. Great. And your latest book will come out April, 2027. April 1st, 2027. Yeah. It's called, And No One Lives Forever. It'll be the seventh book in the Flynn Escapade- Okay, great the last one, wh- which came out in February, was called From Lompoc with Love. Writers, go check out those books. Lisa Orkin and Harris Orkin, thank you so much for being on The Writers' Hangouts. of course. Thank you for having us. Yeah, we appreciate it. Thanks. Okay, writers, as promised, here are two episodes of Chicken Man. first one up is Diving Horse, and the second episode is Origin of Chicken Man. Thanks so much for listening. I'm so lucky to get to hang out with you guys, and we'll talk next week Another exciting episode in the life of the most fantastic crime fighter the world has ever known This is the Steel Pier in Atlantic City. Here, 16 times each day, a great horse leaps from a diving board into a huge tank of water I'd describe the Amazing Horse as it dives as a man in a chicken suit Thank you. Thank you. And backstage, where the dressing rooms are located... Pardon me, I'm the police commissioner of Midland City, and I'm looking for the wonderful winged warrior known as- Oh, next door. Thank you. Come in. Hello, Winged Warrior. Commissioner Norton. May I? Of course. I know you'll be diving again shortly, but a serious crime has been committed in Midland City, and I need your help, feathered fighter. Commissioner, I'm no longer in the crime-fighting game, you know. Yes, but the victim of this crime- Showbiz is my life now is someone you know. Would you hand me my beak plugs? Hmm? Keeps the water from going up my beak. He's an old friend of yours. The horse doesn't need them, of course. It's the mayor. Oh, no, it's a real horse. See, the only fake part of the act is me in the chicken suit. 30 seconds, Chicken. Winged Warrior, please listen. We'll make it fast, Commissioner. Right. Mayor Weekly has been the victim of a foul- uh, wicked crime. He- Gee, that's, uh, too bad. Well, nice seeing you, Commissioner. He slipped and fell on a banana peel. Did you say banana peel? Not just banana peels. Candy wrappers, popsicle sticks, empty paper cups, tin cans. Midland City is being buried alive by- The word, Commissioner, is pollution You're on, Winged Warrior. Oh, former fighting fowl, I know that show business is your life now, but the life of a great city is at stake. Commissioner. Yes? Long ago, I took a vow upon the Golden Chicken Claw that I would not rest until all crime was crushed with one blow from my mighty fist. Then you mean you'll give up- I've come to say so long, partner. I've got a job to do back in Midland City. Oh, sure, I'll leave them for you. So long. Funny, never thought he got water up his nose. Well, so the famous fowl is breaking up a famous showbiz duo just to break up an infamous scene of crime in Midland City. And another thing: doesn't that horse have a swell vocabulary? Be listening tomorrow for another exciting episode in the life of the most fantastic crime fighter the world has ever known. Chicken man. He's everywhere. He's everywhere The office. Benton Harbor, employed as a shoe salesman for a large downtown department store, spends his weekends, his only two days off, striking terror into the hearts of criminals everywhere as the white-winged warrior called Chicken Man. How did it come about that Benton Harbor, weekend winged warrior, selected the visage of the chicken in his crusade against the forces of evil? Now it can be told. Yes, may I help you? How do you do? I'm looking for a costume. Oh, what did you have in mind? Something that will strike terror into the hearts of criminals everywhere. I see. Well, how about this? Hmm. No, I don't think so. Why not try it on? Very well. Here, I'll help you. Thank you. There you are. Now, take a look in the mirror. Hmm. Not bad. I wonder if you would permit me to conduct a quick experiment outside this store. Certainly. Pardon me, sir. Yeah? Are you by chance a vicious criminal? Uh-huh. Fine. Would you take a look at this costume I'm wearing? Yeah. Do you feel anything strange? Uh... Anything at all? Uh, yeah. And what is that? I'd, uh, like to kiss you. Kiss me? Yeah. How do you account for that? Because you look like an adorable bunny rabbit. Well, how did it go? What else do you have? A teddy bear and a chicken. A teddy bear? It'd be cute. Wrap up the chicken, please. and that's a wrap for the Writer's Hangout. Thanks so much for listening. If you enjoyed the show, please take a moment to leave us a review on Apple Podcasts. Your positive feedback will help us keep the show going so we can continue bringing you more future episodes. Remember, keep writing. The world needs your stories. The Writers Hangout is sponsored by the Page International Screenwriting Awards, with executive producer Kristen Overn, Sandy Adamides, and myself, Terry Sampson. And our music is composed by Ethan Stoller. Alexa, you are gaslighting me,