Our Guest Is Comedy Legend Jerry Zucker!

Sometimes, dreams really do come true! We're thrilled to have with us the amazing Jerry Zucker, who, alongside his brother David and their friend Jim Abrahams, played a huge part in transforming comedy in the 1980s. Together, they brought a fresh and hilarious twist to the spoof movie genre with the legendary 1980 hit “Airplane,” which the American Film Institute recognized as one of the ten funniest films ever made.

Before that, the Zuckers and Abrahams wrote the cult classic, "Kentucky Fried Movie" (1977), a comedy consisting of unrelated sketches. After "Airplane," the Zuckers and Abrahams created "Police Squad!" (ABC, 1982) and turned it into the successful film franchise of today. Next, Zucker, Abrahams, Zucker returned to the big screen with "Top Secret!" (1984). Jerry also directed "Ruthless People" (1986) and "Ghost" (1990), starring Patrick Swayze and Demi Moore. "The Naked Gun - From the Files of Police Squad!" (1988). He produced "First Knight" (1995), "Rat Race," "A Walk in the Clouds" (1995), and "My Best Friend's Wedding" (1997). Additionally, he worked on "Fair Game" (2010).

Special thanks to Katie Zucker and Darlene Chan.

The PAGE International Screenwriting Awards sponsors the WRITERS' HANGOUT.
Executive Producer Kristin Overn
Creator/Executive Producer Sandy Adomaitis
Producer Terry Sampson
Music by Ethan Stoller

Transcript

0:01

Hello, my name is Sandy Adamis, the social media director for the page, international Screenwriting Awards, and your host for the Writer's Hangout. A podcast that celebrates the many stages of writing, from inspiration to the first draft, revising, getting a project made and everything in between. We'll talk to the best and the brightest in the entertainment industry and create a space where you can hang out, learn from the pros, and have fun. Hey writers, it's Sandy. I'm coming to you from Studio City, the Paris of the San Fernando Valley. I couldn't be more excited to share this special episode with you. My. Guest is Jerry Zucker, who along with his brother David and their friend Jim Abrams, created the 1980 instant Classic hit airplane named by the American Film Institute. Among the 10 funniest films of all time writers. Jerry Zucker revolutionized comedy and we're gonna get to talk to him today. Jerry also directed ruthless people, Ghost Aw Ghost starring Patrick Swayze and Demi Moore. He and his partners turned Police Squad into the successful film franchise that it is today. He also produced First Night Rat Race, A Walk In the Clouds, and my Best Friend's Wedding, Jerry is one of the most influential figures in the history of comedy. You know, writers life is tough. a lot of us are struggling out there, and I've been going through it myself lately. I hope you guys are okay out there. I really do. But moments like this, when I get to interview a man, I have such immense respect for. Our moments I never want to take for granted. I'm so happy to share this interview with Jerry Zucker. I want to thank Darlene Chan and Katie Zucker for helping put together this dream interview. Let's start the show. Jerry, Thank you so much for hanging out with us. Pleasure to hang. Now, Jerry, of all of my guests, I think you are the most hyphenated. You are a producer, a director, a screenwriter, and the last time I checked on IMBD after screenwriter, they hyphenated. Really great guy. I don't think they, that would be nice. But that's that's the title I really want, now, before we get started, would you like to play a quick round of, would you rather. Oh God. Go ahead. I've never graded these games, but but go ahead. Okay. Would you rather be an extra in an Oscar winning movie or the lead in a box office bomb. An extra Definitely. I have a deathly fear of bombs being associated in any way, and I have been, yeah. Would you rather get a tattoo of the last book you read or the last movie you saw? Last book I read. And what would your tattoo be? It would be the Kinsey Report. No. I can't the probably Jonathan Heights book The Anxious Generation. Wow that's gonna be a little painful there. Yeah. Would you rather get a paper cut every time you turn a page or bite your tongue every time you eat? I do bite my tongue every time I eat, so I guess that would be it. And I generally don't bleed when I bite my tongue, so I think I go with that. Okay. Would you rather hop everywhere or skip everywhere? Skip. you can't not be happy while skipping? I, the other thing is at my age the idea of actually skipping everywhere is just delightful. Would you rather be forced to sing along or dance to every song you hear? I think I would look a lot more ridiculous dancing to every song. However singing every song would be painful I would probably lose more friends that way would you rather be stranded on a desert island with somebody who won't stop talking about the television series, the Flying Nun, or be alone? that's a great one. I think I probably would rather be on an island with someone who wouldn't stop talking because it depends upon how long, if you could tell me how long we'll be there, but no, maybe alone actually. That, that could be pretty painful. I was gonna say with, just'cause I, you wanna be with someone, But if that's all they talk about maybe alone would be better. would you rather be able to converse with animals or speak every language? Speak every language. Would you rather be followed by a band wherever you go, or someone narrating your life? Someone narrating my life, I think a band would get everywhere I go would get. A pretty annoying and I assume someone narrating my life would just be, I only I would hear it. On the other hand, if it was blasting over loudspeakers may maybe a band would be better. Yeah. It would be hard to get reservations with a band, don't you think? Yeah, yeah, exactly. That was so much fun. Thank you. I would like, so that's it, huh? That's all you need to know, really. That's all we need to know. Thank you so much. No. Now I'm gonna start way back in the beginning. You grew up in Milwaukee, Wisconsin with your future creative partner and talented brother Dayed. What were your aspirations as a kid? I know you guys were very involved with. Comedy even at a young age, you loved Mad Magazine, but did you always wanted to be in the film industry? No I never had fantasies about being in the film industry because it just, it wasn't real to me. I, growing up in Milwaukee. You don't even know anyone who knows someone in the movie business, right? It's just not it's just not around. Whereas if you live in LA every garage mechanic has a script there. They wanna sell or whatever. But I, but we did make jokes all the time and our family valued that, they, that was a good thing. We didn't get disciplined for it. they laugh. We learned that there was value in a good joke. But I never, and even when we started, kentucky Fried Theater in Madison. At the beginning it was just a lark and I it wasn't till much, much later when we were out here. That the idea of actually directing a movie occurred to us. When we're younger, we don't even know writers write the films. We were actually writers and still think of ourselves as writers. that's really what I am. like I think Mel Brooks once said he, he directs out of self-defense. and I think particularly with airplane we had a very specific vision of the style of acting and uh, playing at that straight. And we insisted on directing it and we were actually pretty lucky that, they let us, The world is just better off with airplane existing Now you went to the university of Wisconsin, right? Your brother David had gotten there first'cause he was older What did you study in school? I was an education major. I actually taught high school for a semester. Oh, I could not love you anymore. That is amazing. A teacher. yeah. And I, and at that point I just had no idea. What I would do for a living.'cause I didn't really I didn't think I could really teach, year after year. And and there was nothing else that I was competent at really. Okay. And so I was really lucky that the whole a comedy thing worked out. did you ever get to teach? Yeah. I taught for a semester. At at Madison East High School it was part of my student teacher program, oh, okay. They let you do that. Yeah. I would imagine you'd be just an amazing teacher because you could bring humor to Ed. Yeah I, that's interesting you say that, and I, that. Performance is really important for teaching because in order to teach anybody anything, you have to have their attention. And that's hard, there's so many distractions, especially with cell phones now, I was surprised even then. Probably the key to teaching. Yeah. Yes. Now at the University of Wisconsin that's where Kentucky Fried Theater arose. Just for the writers out there who might not know, you should know it was a legendary comedy troupe that you co-founded with your brother David, and Jim Abrams Abrams. And others. It integrated Live theater, videotaped segments and film scenes. How the heck did you get videotaped? Did you have a camera? that was a very lucky thing. A friend of our family had, a owned sick room service company where they would rent hospital type equipment to people, wheelchairs, and walkers and whatever. And he had a videotape machine that he would use to demonstrate things. But he wasn't using it at this point and mentioned it to my dad. And my dad actually told my brother David that, maybe he could do industrial videos. David had no interest. But then he saw this show groove Tube he saw it in Chicago and drove straight to Madison where I was in school. He had graduated. And he was frothing at the mouth telling me we could do this. we could use this video machine and play videos and I think it was Easter break. We found ourselves, my brother and I and Jim Abrams and another of Fred Dick Chu now, and we had this machine in the basement of our house. We were just making videotapes and it was amazing to us that we could actually record. Do a little bit and then see it right back and then and then try it again and just fool with it. David and I had made. Eight millimeter films, but you gotta wait and get it developed. it's more expensive. And so this was just like a, a. Comedian's dream. And and then we, after a while we compiled, 20 minutes of funny stuff and we'd show it to people and they, they laugh and then. We just said let's do a show. It was really a very much a a mic Rudy Judy Garland kind of film. What an exciting fun time. Yes, exactly. It was great. Yeah. I had heard you didn't really rehearse the whole show The first night we actually performed in the union there wasn't even a stage or anything and people were just hanging around and I think we did 45 minutes of bits and then. We ran out. We never rehearsed it. We didn't really realize that it was, that it would go so fast. so we said there'll be a 15 minute intermission and then I talked about how much of money we should refund. I think we probably charged a dollar or something. I don't know. It wasn't or maybe it was free actually, I don't remember, but. So it was a disaster. But after that we found an old uh, bookstore that had a big room in the back that we rented. And we spent a summer building. A theater in there. Crude Abby rents, chairs and stuff. and then we rehearsed the show and it, went well. Now where, does the name come from? actually, we were sitting in a restaurant. Thinking of names for our show. and we were throwing out stupid names that, that of course we would never use. and, there was a, big window and right by our booth and we were throwing out joke names that just made us laugh but not serious names for the show. And I think it was Dick Chubb now looked across the street and saw the Kentucky Fried chicken. restaurant and said how about how about Kentucky Fried Theater? and we all just thought, wait a minute. That's funny that works. Let's use that. So that was the origin of it, Now do I get this right? Kentucky Fried Theater. It's like fast comedy, fast food. Is that what you were I don't think we ever thought that far. It was just a funny sounding name and also we were doing satire, it seemed to make sense to do something like that. I love the name and it really does stick in your head. Yeah. Now, in 1972, you literally packed up Kentucky Fried Theater, rented a U-Haul, and moved to Hollywood. Now after performing for five years on Pico, you decided to create Kentucky Fried Movie. Now, I'm just gonna assume that was an easy step. You know you're in la, your theater's near 20th Century Fox Studios. Yeah. Did 20th stop by with a big fat check for you guys? Yeah. Unfortunately not. I think there was like one person I remember we were very excited, some VP that was stopped by the show and he was very kind, but it never amounted to to anything. in the end, the show was financed by United Artist Theater Circuit, which is completely different than the United Artist Studio. it took a while to get that going. where was it on Pico, the theater? Is it still there? The building? No. There's it's right across from Rancho Park. Oh, yes. Yeah. Groucho Marks old golf course, if I remember. Oh, was it? Yeah. Oh no. That's I'm talking about the country club. Yes. That's Hillcrest, I think was his. Maybe. No hillcrest was that, but that's where Barack Obama played basketball. I remember that. Oh really? When he was in town? Yes. Not when we were there, but anyway. Now, where did you first live in la? we found this building actually a cousin of ours who was a doctor, owned it with a bunch of other doctors And amazingly it had a huge space that we could put a theater in and a lobby and parking and all that. But it also had an apartment. Upstairs. I don't know what this was originally built for the first thing we did when we got there was a complete mess. This place, it was just like graffiti and smashed up and whatever, but we, we remodeled the when I say remodeled, we we painted and fixed up and stuff the the apartment upstairs and moved in. So we had a place to live. So it was, that was pretty Wow. That's great. Pretty great. Yeah. Really cool. when I got down, I ended up way in North Hollywood somewhere. Ah. Yeah, we were very lucky. We worked hard we were talented guys, but yes, I can't help but thinking that there must have been some fate involved or I don't know. Did you have a favorite hangout where, you know, like after the show, did you guys go out afterwards? Yeah. We did go out after the show frequently because we were wired. We had to unwind. And we went into Westwood and what was the name is of this place. There was a restaurant in Westwood that's not there anymore. But that was a place we would go to a lot. Is it Hamburger Hamlet? No. Although Hamburger Hamlet was a place that we would go to, but that wasn't in Westwood. I they didn't have one in Westwood. Did it take you a while to feel at home here or as soon as you crossed the border, you were just home? I don't know if I'll exactly say home, but we loved it here, but mostly because, we loved what we were doing. Our lives were this with this show Especially at the beginning when we were once again, had to remodel, build a theater, and that was a blast. And also we had each other, we weren't here alone. we liked la. The weather was great and some of the goofy things about la we just saw more as entertainment than just horrible, pretentious or anything. we loved. And a lot of people look down in la I love it here. It's, yeah, it's a special place. It really is. Now you and your partners, optioned the 1957 movie, zero hour. and it's about an airliner that loses its pilot and passengers to food poisoning, and you adapt the that into a modern parody called airplane. What does it feel like to write? one of the top 10 a FI funniest movies in history. it's great to be appreciated. At the time we weren't thinking about that kind of thing. we had a particular humor that the three of us shared a, a kind of satire. And we were trying to figure out what to write and we came up with various ideas. And this was when we were still doing the theater and we used to set the videotape machine to record. Late night TV shows because the the commercials were actually very funny. They had really cheap stupid commercials on at three o'clock in the morning or whatever. And so one day we, we were. Looking through and, we'd fast forward to get to the commercials. Then we realized that there was this interesting movie in between. And we started watching that and it was zero hour. And we thought, wait a minute, this is a great idea for a for a satirical film. And it was a film where, it was that style of drama where everybody was really heavy hitting. And everyone was tough, and it it, I don't know. so many of the jokes in all our films came from watching old movies and saying, wait a minute. Stop the tape. What if this happens? I can't remember what film it was, but someone said, surely you can't be serious. And and someone said, stop the tape and said, and don't call me Shirley. So that, that's how a lot of those jokes, came. What was the writing process like? Did you all sit together? yep, we all sat together. We did everything in a room together. Obviously someone, sometimes someone would come in with a joke'cause we were, thinking about this 24 hours a day. Really. Men asleep. But, we would generally sit in a room drink coffee and then as soon as we were all like, sufficiently stimulated we started writing and a lot of that time was just spent laughing. As a audience member, it just makes me happy to know that you were all in the room because I think that's how the world envisions that you guys would've written. Yeah.'cause you like to do parody movies. It just kept flashing in my mind. You know how they do those rock and roll movies where in the good old days, they're all recording together? And then later they're all in their separate buses. I would like to see the the three of you in separate buses riding as you go across country. we were a team. Not that we didn't have our arguments, but we were always we just did everything together. I was just thinking about when you said that John I think Michael Palin said this about John Cleese, or John Cleese said it about himself. The reason why John's ideas got into our skits, the most s. Was because he would argue the longest Did you guys fight? That's funny. I don't know what things were like with Monty Python clearly whatever their way of operating was it, it worked. But for us, because there were three of us, there was always an instant decision and also we had tremendous faith in each other. So if I. I came up with a joke and David and Jim didn't laugh which I just move on. I wouldn't argue that, they were wrong unless I thought they didn't understand what I was saying. But and conversely, if they laugh, that was the best to have both of them laugh. And then I knew Yes, I, that's a, that's gonna work. not to be too mean to executives, but they don't always understand what's on the page. Airplane must have been difficult to verbally translate to them. Did you get along with your executives? We were we were lucky and and unfortunately you don't hear too many of these stories these days, but they were terrific and really really helpful and actually right at the beginning when we went in. our idea was to do this film on a propeller plane, and in black and white, like zero hour. we were really wanted to do that movie. And Eisner said, no, if you're gonna do it at this studio, it's gotta be on a jet plane and in color, because I Want people to have a an experience that they can relate to of flying, not just. The satirical part of it. And he was absolutely right. Yeah. Good on him. And, yeah. No. So that was a thing where, you know the head of the studio issued an edict and bless him for it. And there was also a guy an executive that they put on, his name was Tom Perry. And he really taught us a lot about, restructuring the film a bit and making all those the flashbacks of their love story were something that he encouraged us to do. And that they were great. that is really nice to hear. did it take long to write the script? Yes, but we wrote the original draft before Kentucky Fried Movie, and thank God it didn't get made because it wasn't. Great. And then after Kentucky Fried Movie, we rented a little bungalow in Santa Monica and we we went about rewriting it. We took the, the story and. And there were 20 great jokes. Maybe some more, and then went about rewriting it. But then, as we showed it to people and got turned down everywhere, we just kept rewriting and adding, we, we used to joke that it's like a closet that's. Totally full, but you could always open it a little bit and stuff in one more thing and close it. So that was us with I, I love airplane. I love that so much and I really wanna hang a lantern on that for our writers out there. You guys believed in your script. You knew it was funny, so you just kept working on it. Yeah. And didn't put it in a bottom drawer because you didn't get an immediate Yes. And that's very admirable. And I really want our writers out there to take that away if they take anything away from this. If you believe in something, just really keep going. That's hard because you can believe in something and be right about it, and you can believe in something and be wrong about it. True. But I think that if you really feel like you have a. a premise or a story that, or something you wanna say. It, yeah. Keep at it. But the other thing that I would advise to writers is. It tell people the story and you just tell it like, okay, once upon a time there was this, and you don't have to tell every incident, but you just the story and watch their eyes If they're engaged or they're their eyes are looking darting away or they, if they ask questions, then what ha how did this happen? Or whatever. You can tell whether you have a story that's interesting to people. And I did that actually with. Ghost before I had signed on, there was another movie that I liked too, and another script. I was at a party and told some friends who were also writers. and I could just see when I talked about ghosts, they were just really intrigued. So I knew I had, there was something there. That is so cool. What great advice. Not only did you write airplane, but all three of you directed it. Yeah. Now for the writers out there, the DGA, the Director's Guild of America they usually want a single director How the heck did all three of you managed to pull that off? two things that we pulled off. One is three people directing, but that really wasn't that difficult because we had developed this, a kind of humor and written the script and been together for years. And so when we would talk about what was wrong, it wasn't, we all had the exact same vision of what we wanted. We are just trying to figure out how to get there and okay, why isn't this working? And so it was great to have three of us. And once again, if we disagreed, we'd have an instant decision. And the other thing was getting credit, which was more difficult in a way. the first time they turned us down and the, then we went in again saying we had some new things to show them, which we hadn't, and before whatever. And it was actually a tie. And then Gil Kates was the acting. Was the vice president, but the president was out of town, so he was the acting president and he voted for us and we got credit. So we were we lucked out. Thank you, Gil. We really appreciate that. Yeah. Yeah. You don't look at airplane and you, there is one vision there. You don't, you I don't think you could ever. Pick out, I think so and so directed this. It's, yeah, just pure now. You return to TV after the massive success of airplane. Yeah. With police squad. And by the way, I love an exclamation point and I, and it really, I said, yeah, you guys do too. We have that in common on A, B, C. It was in 1982 Lieutenant Frank Drummond was created, played by the late Great Leslie Nielsen. Yeah. The show was ahead of its time in short lived. Became a massive film, franchise. How did you manage things? was it a traditional writer's room? I've heard that you had an interesting way of dealing with the writers on staff. We wrote the pilot and then we brought on writers and there was a writer's room, actually, it was good. We had great people. But what was your question about? An interesting way of what? an interesting way of dealing with the writers on staff. you paired three writers up. You broke up the writer's room and paired everybody up with three. It's funny. I have no recollection that could be true. Oh, I have no recollection of it. These are, yeah, these are just stories that are out there in the world about, yeah, about you. now? Top secret. First of all, just thank you. Just thank you for top secret. Thank you. From the bottom of my heart. Can you share any secrets you haven't shared before about the making of top secret? Oh, gee Despite the name, there are no secrets. that was a really fun movie. in airplay we were confined to, an interior of an airplay with people in seats and then just at a control tower and few other things. But then in top secret, we. We like, oh my God, we can go anywhere. And so it was that was really fun. You were invited back to the University of Wisconsin to deliver the commencement address. Yeah. And you advised the graduates not to be afraid of failure. I think failure is or fear of failure is probably motivated by ego to some extent. And but on the other hand it's probably helpful because. You have a fear of failure. You put more pressure on yourself to make it right. On the other hand if it's too much, then you prevent yourself from doing things. So I think I was just saying to people If you do fail, just move on. It's not a big deal. It's only a big deal to you. And I told this story about After Top Secret, which did not do well at the box office, and it was the first weekend. And, we were in New York and eating at Rumpel Myers which I don't think is there anymore. But and Travolta walked in and and we knew him from the lot, a bit, and he saw us moping and, gee, a movie didn't do. And he just said, guys, forget about it. No, nobody thinks nobody else cares about it. Only you, for everybody else, it's just a blip. It's just a huge crushing thing for you. that really made a lot of sense to us. such a great story. Thank you. It's a wonderful note to end on. Jerry, you have spent so much time with us. Thank you. Thank you. And I hope you come back again. Alright, we'll see you tomorrow. Okay. Sandy, been a pleasure. Thank you. That's a wrap for the Writer's Hangout. Thanks so much for listening. If you enjoyed the show, please subscribe and thrive till we get to hang out again. Keep writing. The world needs your Stories.