First Draft Practical Steps With Screenwriter Leo Andronov

We're thrilled to introduce our special guest, Leo Andronov! He's a talented screenwriter, director, novelist, dramatist, and the author of FIRST DRAFT PRACTICAL STEPS. Originally from Russia, Leo now makes his home in LA. He's celebrated in his home country, having won the top award at the Eurasia International Dramatist Competition, one of Russia's most prestigious playwriting contests. Leo also wrote and directed his first feature film, 29th Kilometer. His book, First Draft Practical Steps, recently soared to become an Amazon #1 bestseller in the Play & Scriptwriting category.

FIRST DRAFT PRACTICAL STEPS by Leo Andronov is available on Amazon.

Executive Producer Kristin Overn

Executive Producer Sandy Adomaitis

Producer Terry Sampson

Music by Ethan Stoller

Transcript

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Hello, my name is Sandy Adamidis, the social media director for the Page International Screenwriting Awards and your host for the Writers Hangout, a podcast that celebrates the many From inspiration to the first draft, revising, getting the project made, and everything in between. We'll talk to the best and the brightest in the entertainment industry, and create a space where you can hang out, learn from the pros, and have fun. Hey writers, this is Sandy. Thank you for spending time with me. It's a lovely, cool evening here in Studio City, the heart of the San Fernando Valley Get Ready. We have a very special guest, Leo and Denovo, a screenwriter director, novelist, dramatist, and author of First Draft. Practical steps. Leo was born in Russia, but now calls LA Home in Russia. He won the top award at the Eurasia International Dramatist Competition, one of the country's premier playwriting contests, and he wrote and directed His first feature film 29th Kilometer. His book, first Draft Practical Steps recently became an Amazon number one bestseller in playwriting and script writing. Let's start the show. Leo, thank you so much for joining us on the Writer's Hangouts. Thank you so much for inviting me. I really honored being here. Leo. Bravo. Great job on this book. it was such an easy, clean. Fast read and you learn so much on every single page practical stuff that a screenwriter needs to know about. Congratulations. Thank you so much. I did a whole dissertation there. Could you please tell us about yourself and why you wrote this book? first of all, I'm a Russian dude living in la Probably you can hear it. Okay. So I'm a writer and director. I do write scripts both in English and in Russian. I do write books in English and in Russian. I used to be a playwright, so I started as a playwright. So I used to write for theater. Then, I was a musician. I was in advertising. I did this and that. So I have some experience. and, being a filmmaker with such a diverse background helps me to maybe make my scripts a little bit different than. a reader expect. I, arrived to LA in 2012, at age 36. I still here doing stuff and now, my book is out and I'm very happy about it. This is my first book, published in English. And why did I write it? Well, because I stuck with my novel, it gave me so much trouble, so I was really overwhelmed and I stuck, I felt angry and I switched myself into writing a book for screenwriters. Why? Because before my, master classes in Russia, my students asked me to do it. So I was thinking first about preparing a new master class, about finishing the first draft, but it turned out to be a book. and we are better for it now. Why do you think, many screenwriters never complete their first draft? And this is what your book is all about, that first draft. And do you have any solutions for, screenwriters out there who can't finish their first draft? the first thing, what I need to say is. The reason why they stopped doing this is because every single book on screenwriting teaches you and, encourages you to write a perfect script, to write a Oscar winning screenplay or something like that. Yes, and that's the expectation every aspiring writer has in their minds. When they started. So if you expect to have at end, the brilliant screenplay and in the middle working on it, you realize it's not so good. It's really frustrating experience, right? Yes. So that's why so many people. When they're, for example, stuck in the middle or they realize the, their character's not so developed, or the story isn't so great, they got scared and they drop it. So nobody really talks about, first draft as a crucial first step, which shouldn't be perfect. The main thing is to finish when you have. then you can proceed to stage two, three's a draft, two, three, and the later drafts will be much easier. Nobody really explains it to the new writers, and So I remember that feeling. and I try to explain how it works for a reader. So the solution is to understand that the main thing is to finish your first draft. It doesn't need to be perfect. That's my answer. what a great, simple answer. Finish it, you're gonna be able to build off of it, and that is gonna be a great feeling for you. Now, in your opinion, what are the biggest myths about screenwriting that holds writers back? I would say there is two big names. What I really dislike or hate, I would say the first one is the most probably common. you know, this notion, and every single writer heard it many times, which says you must write every day. You can find it in every single book. You must write every day in blogs in like on, even on Reddit. you can find this notion over and over again. Yes, but the thing is, do you really need to write every day? My answer is that. This notion is misconception. You must write every day. You should write every day to maintain a skill of writing. That is true, but do you really need to work on your story every day? I don't think so. if you start forcing yourself, it, it hurts your creative process. You must write only. When you cannot do otherwise. So when you have an idea and it's bringing into you and you must tell it to and put it on paper, then yes, please do it. Uh, like 18 hours a day, 16, 20, it doesn't matter. But. If you start to force yourself, I see it every time many writers do it, so they sit in front of the computer staring at a blank page, and after several hours they have like probably a couple of sentences written that because they are afraid of not doing it because everybody say, okay, you must write. If you don't write, you're not a writer. That is not true. The writing process, is more than that. So you, you can write, walking around your couch in your room and thinking about your story. It's still a writing process. You can be at a grocery store, buying a banana, say, thinking about your characters. That's a writing process as well. I keep saying you don't need to sit in front of the, computer and, trying to type something. Just let it go. Just leave it in your head because your story, if you working on it, it's still in your mind. Even if you do your day job, you are still thinking about your story. So that's not necessary to hurt yourself and force yourself to do what you don't need to do. It's too much. Especially if you have a job and you have kids. you're, you're just going through things in life. And I also love that you highlighted. While you're at the supermarket, you are thinking about your script. You come up with a great idea, you get home, life gets away from you and you can't get to your computer till the next day. Great. Pat yourself on the back for that. And the second myth, let me tell you this. You probably heard it as well. So start with a log line. Wow. That's the thing. What I really, really don't like, because creating a story or writing your screenplay is a, creating a world. You need to build your own new world. You need to develop characters, you need to create relationship between them. You need to put so much into their souls and you have to, come up with ideas of sins and, create so much to fill this world. But when you start and somebody tells you, you, you need to write a logline for this, you don't have a world to describe. Right, right. It's really frustrating for a new writer. And another thing you need to understand when you going to use your log line and any writer use it, only when they start pitching it. When you ready and you're doing it only when your script is done. So just focus on writing the story first, finishing your first draft, then it would be much easier for you to come up with a two sentences of a log line. Exactly. You write about finding your story, what you wanna write about, and finding your voice, your unique voice. So, let's make up a scenario and we have a writer, and her name is Sally. Okay. And Sally's a first time writer and she wants to write a bank heist movie because that's what her and her dad used to watch when she was growing up. They watched the Ocean 11 movies. and that's all she's got. What can Sally do to tell that story? She's not even sure she has a story. What does she do? First of all, Sally needs to find the deepest emotion first she needs to recall the moments of, watching these films and ask herself What was the most exciting part of that moment was for her? Because when you say, it to me, I feel she wants to write, not necessarily a bank robbery movie. Maybe she wants to dive into the emotions of her relationships with her father. Yes. Maybe she has more materials. for her next script or first script, when she starts studying their relationships. Because like, for example, it's okay to start with something. it's fine, working on a screenplay it's like a journey. So you something. And. She may start working on the heist movie, but if she has more emotions and more feelings towards relationships with her father, maybe she will switch sooner or later into creating a story between them, how they watch movies, how they interact with each other. And maybe for Sally it would be more interesting and more touching, and at the end of the day it can be completely different, screenplay, completely different story with her own touch because her relationship with her father, this is something what was, what is unique. So you, we need to write about unique things. We need to write about our own experiences because there's truth into it. If we start, and we're going back to the, your previous question, if we read a book about, writing plays and we see everybody's talking about Titanic or diehard movies, and we want to start with something big. This is probably the moment when we are going to fail because we don't know that world yet. So it's better to describe and create a world what we know. So every single writer writes about themselves because it's easier and it's more truthful. That's my take on it. Yes, it could be. Sally, Finds out her father is a bank high sky. Maybe back when she was a baby, he went for a job every night. So it's a interesting perspective. Can you imagine the story about the daughter of a bank robber, Who is absent? She sees him like only minutes in a day. He's hiding all the time. And if we focus in about the little girl's feelings towards her father and for a little girl, it doesn't matter who he is, what work does he do, It's about her father and their relationship. That's a really unique angle. let's talk about the art of observation. now Sally is in Starbucks and you mentioned, that a good writer really has to be observant. So Sally is in Starbucks and she's gonna, practice her observation skills, What does she do? I mean, what, what can you do by getting a cup of coffee that's gonna enrich your writing? Sitting in a coffee shop, you can see so many different people. And as a writer, you should be curious about their interactions to each other. So for example, let's take the process of buying a cup of coffee. Every single person does it in different way, being an. Observers sitting at the coffee shop, you can see how people ordering coffee, how they interact with barista, how do they greet them? are they friendly or are they demanding? Do they, are they open or are they trying to hide something inside? So it's a great place for observation as any other public place. So we need, as writers, we need to kind of love people. We need to understand them. if we know how to observe a person that will be easier for us to develop a character. And also, if you are at a dinner party and you go, oh God, I got stuck next to the guy who works at the DWP, I have nothing in common. Well, one of your characters may. Have that job, talk to that person, right? Find out about their job. And you Both will have fun. And another thing, it's very important for a writer to go out and see our people because they constantly telling stories. most of the writers are sitting in their rooms, coming up with ideas for their next book or, screenplay, but there is so many stories out there. Just listen to people, and that's a huge part of the material that you can use in your stories. Can you sharpen your observation skills? Do you had an exercise in your book? Yes, I do. For example, sitting in a coffee shop, observing people, you can write down five significant things about any person you see, that would, help you to shape your characters, right? So if you start noticing different things in every person, so at least five. Distinct things about a person would help you to understand who he or she's, and like, let's take a look at their haircut. Let's take a look at their wardrobe because it says so much about the person, right? Because our wardrobe is like kind of a message to a world. Are we delivering something to outer world or we trying to hide something? Mm. Take a look at their hands, take a look at the tattoos. if they have it. So, so much you can pick up from just one single person and it'll give you the understanding of the personality, right? Yes. now, let's stick with Sally. Mm-hmm. We like Sally. she's chosen her story, the bank heist, and she's figuring out her unique voice. She's observing the world. She's looking at her own life. Mm-hmm. And you suggest creating a file on your computer. Or, a file folder in your desk. why? Okay, so my idea is to start, creating the folders in your computer as a vessels for the material you're going to fill into them. So basically I'm given kind of like a structure for a future project and it's really, helpful for a new writer to organize their process because if you see a folder which is still empty, you know you have to fill it. I'm kind of creating the skeleton of the future project. For a writer. So I'm helping them to understand what they need to do and if a folder empty that needs to be filled we can't really go, you know, into detail about everything that's gonna go in that file. But can you help us and Sally, what might you put in that file? Right. So, I've seen writers. Put everything on their computer, like all the material related to the project, and it creates a mess. And I think the order helps, a writer to make the process easier. for example, you can have a folder, which you call script, and it'll have a folder for, uh, yours. Uh, uh, screenwriting software. It'll have a folder for a treatment, for a synopsis for a logline. So in this folder you will have. Many sub folders and for example, you will need to store, somewhere in your folder pictures. So create a folder and name it picks and put there like mood pictures, like research pictures. there's a big chapter about, working with images, during the writing your screen play. for example, you need to, collect the articles about the subject, and you'll need to read many of them. So create a folder for articles. A folder for future. That's, as I told you, it's like a vessels what you need to fill with material. what is the, field of dreams, if you make it, they will come. As creatives, we're always looking around and boring. It's like you, went, oh, I love the way they transitioned into scenes in blah, blah, blah movie. So you might take a still image of that and that way you won't forget. When you're creating and when you're sitting there and you're going, oh my goodness, I don't even know what this is about. Go into that image file and just look at what gave you chills. Exactly, yes. So the chills is right word. When you have chills you on the right path. This is the indicator what any writer should use. Right? If you are excited about something. This topic or scene or just image should be in your script. Yes. Some of the great topics that you include, You start with what is a script? then, you explain from a department head's perspective how they interpret and perform their duties. I loved this section. Can you share a couple examples of that? it will help the writers understand why you format it a certain way, because the prop master, is taking your script as a Blueprint, correct? yes. So the idea that the script is a document is very important, and I feel that any screenwriter should know the process of filmmaking. It'll help them to format, script properly, because every single, department head reads the script differently. As you mentioned, the prop master will take a look at the objects, characters used in the scenes, but for, cinematographer, it's very interesting and important to understand. Where the story take place, what the sources of light will be there? Is it day or is it night? So even mundane things for us, like interior kitchen day. This is so much crucial information for some department heads because for a cinematographer day for night or night for night, it's a very, very important thing to know, right? Mm-hmm. I was shooting on location, or I was shooting on a sound stage. That's what, production designer, for example, thinking about. So as a writer, we need to understand what we not just put in the story on the page. We creating a document, a blueprint for a future film that needs to be useful for department heads. That's the perspective, what probably I haven't seen in the screenwriting books before. No, and I love that. And just a side note, if you say 23 sheep. They're gonna get you 23 sheep. So if you were thinking, eh, just a couple, I would've done right? It's yeah, you're getting 23 sheep. So yes, I really, really love that. And I also found your take on theme, so clear and concise, I mean, theme. That is one of the things that trips writers up a lot. Now, what is theme'cause Poor Sally, she's not even sure what the theme of her screenplay is Is that bad? No, not at all. And I feel her because I've been there too. When I was starting, especially at the film school, like everybody was like, oh, the theme of this film is so great. And I was like sitting there like frustrated and I was pretending I understand what. The theme. It's basically, it's what the story about. That's the core of a story. And it can be, very simple idea like, we need to love children. we must take care of our family. That's a like, simple notion, but it gives us a kind of a compass. It's a compass for a writer to. check the direction. if I'm writing about love, even one word can be a theme. Like love, I'm writing about love. And if I start shifting somewhere else, if I like with first part of my screenplay is about love, and then suddenly I turned and like I started to write about something else, something different. Thinking about my theme will help me to understand what I'm shifting. So I need to go back to my core idea. So it's a heart of a story basically. it's hard to explain in a few words, but like the compass is the best probably, comparison and, Best image for a writer, explaining the theme. writing, the screenplay is a discovery, so you may discover it later on. Right. There's something inside you, and we're going back to that feeling that Sally had. Mm-hmm. She was watching, heist movies with her dad. It's probably whatever that was, might end up being, as you said, the kind of the theme of her screenplay and. She might not know that to the very end. and then as you say, and one of the whole points of your whole book is if you get it done, that first draft, you can go back and layer in more theme. Exactly. For example, just a few days ago, I finished the first draft of my new screen play. And it's messy. I gotta tell you, I kind of hate it because I'm frustrated with the story. I don't think it works yet. And I'm kind of, I'm angry on myself, but at the same time, I'm stopping myself every time saying, dude, it's just the first draft. You will find the solution. You have your characters, you can develop them. You can, put more tension into it. You can find a new angle. What I need to do now is just to wait until I find this solution, and only after that I will jump on my chair and start rewriting it. there is. So much in this book, so much good material. And if that's not enough, you explore what should happen in your acts such as introducing characters, protagonists versus antagonist dynamics, conflict, humor, structure. Now we can't reveal everything, but what are, give us five essential elements. That you must include in the first act that you feel are essential for the first act. And you and the writers out there can write these down, put them on their board, and just look up at'em every once in a while. So in the first act, you need to introduce your character, right? Because you have to show the viewers. Who is it about? We need to. the main character. We need to understand the world they living in. Mm. Because we created the world in the first act, the world should be clear for us. Yes, we need to establish their dreams because a character without a goal, without a dream is not really interesting. So we need to see what do they want and they, we need to see the goals. Without the goal, just, you know, the character floating in the story. It's not really interesting. They need to be so. Right. We need the kick, as I say, the kick gives them the push towards their goals. Yes. I love that you call it the kick. so let's review You, we were introducing the character their dreams, their goals. we creating the world, and we created the situation when we care about the character. This is the FIFA element. we need to care about the character and our job as writers to create a character who is likable for us. And likable doesn't have to mean that, um, person who might be doing things that aren't very cool. Mm-hmm. we should care about them. Perfect. next. Let's look at humor. My favorite, you mentioned that there's four types. Mm-hmm. Situational, character based, conversational, or dialogue based and contextual. Can you break those down for us? Yeah, situational humor is very simple. And probably the early, cinema started showing humor with situational jokes. Like, think of banana peel gag, right? Someone sleeps onto banana peel and, falls and everybody laugh. So basically the idea of, humiliation character is in the any humorous situation. So that's why situational humor is very simple. The character based, humor is as it says, based on the character. So when character himself is like, laughable, think of Mr. Beon, Benny Hill. So they appear on the screen and we already know it's funny. So just the presence of the character makes the situation funnier. the humor based on dialogue is like, works with subtext, with double meanings. We play with words, we create absurd exchanges the dialogue, and it creates humor as well. And the contextual, humor is when we. For example, we change in the context of the situation, let's say very famous, film trading places with AD Murphy when a bomb from the street was put into a luxury environment. So two oligarchs making a bomb as where, you know, uh, worker and the. Changes the subtext of a new environment, being himself. So the context, the changing context creates a humorous situation. if you don't consider yourself very funny, Sally doesn't. Mm-hmm. She cannot tell a joke to save her life. Can she learn how to write funny? Um, to be honest, I think like humor is the. Any writer, some people just doing it genuinely, they have a talent for it. Most of us, we just, we trying to learn the basics and I feel silly, so, because I'm not a really, um, a funny guy and my scripts are humor in my scripts, creates a smile. Not a laugh, not a laughter. So. When you work on your screenplay, I think you have to focus. If you create a humorous situation, you have to focus on humiliation and embarrassment. So the more you humiliate your character and the more embarrassment he or she feels, creates the situation is more funny, like funnier. also a good tip for your character being humiliated. Give a witness to your character. I've sometimes noticed, writers will struggle to write a funny scene when a character is all alone. There is nothing funnier than a character doing something and looking up and seeing somebody watching them. Exactly. It's just funnier.'cause it's embarrassment for them. You have, dialogue, tips. Can you give us, in your book, can you give us one of your favorite dialogue tips? So I think, a writer should keep in mind that people rarely say what they think and that creates the dialogue more interesting, because if the character doesn't give her direct answer and tries to hide something. Not to tell what they think. It creates a subtext and dialogue with subtext is always deeper, always more interesting. And so like in real life, we hide what we really think we, and there's different reasons for it. We don't wanna show our vulner vulnerability or we trying to show off or we trying to. Hide something inside of us. So, the subtext, gives the dialogue with them. Exactly. And this is the simplest, example that I can think of. Leo, we're doing an improv. You and I are married. Ask me how I am. How are you? Fine. See, look, I I have a great, example for exactly same dialogue. So let's think about, two soldiers on a battlefield and the battle's over, and let's say jack flying Pete among the dead bodies. Pete is alive, but he's going to die the next minute and. How are you? Pete replies. I'm fine. And we see he's about to die, right? So simple dialogue gives us depth. let's reverse the situation, Jack. Find speed and Pete asks him, how are you? Jack looks back at him, seeing he's going to die and say, I'm fine bro. I'm die. I'm fine. So just simple words gives us depth because we know the subtext behind it. let's skip to the deadline. any helpful advice on, how to deal with deadlines? First of all, if you have a deadline, that probably means you're entering a contest, which is exciting, or you've got a project and you've gotta hand it in. Mm-hmm. Embrace that you're ahead of the game, but deadlines scare writers. That's okay, but that's the main thing for a writer you must deliver, period. It doesn't matter what happens in your life, you must deliver. So I remember I read a post of my friend, he's a professional screenwriter and he was able to deliver scripts. Even being in a hospital, it doesn't matter. It's like a war. If you wanna be a pro, you must deliver. I could not agree more. I'm gonna hang a lantern on that. Vivian Lee, who's been on this podcast, new baby, woke up in the morning, would be feeding her baby and writing her script on her phone. You gotta do it. You gotta do it. Yeah. what do you think of treatments? Treatments is a great tool and it helps you to see the structure of your, screenplay on a page. the treatment helps you to. See the development of the story very fast because what the treatment is, it's basically description of the scene in a couple of sentences, right? and if you have a printout of your treatment with you, you can work on your script in a bus, in a car, on a plane. It's always with you and you can analyze and you can, uh, write your ideas on top of your scenes. So it's a very helpful thing. And another, example of using a treatment. Let's say your screenplay is 90 pages, but your treatment will be 20, right? And for some decision makers, it's easier to read 20 pages. 89. Yes. I had a situation when I got first money in for a film after my investor read my treatment. Oh, nice. Nice. We like that. I'm gonna call you Joe Esther house from now on. I'd like to talk about pitch decks now. I came up in a time where if you pitched, you'd leave maybe a one pager, which is even the shorter version than the treatment. Just one page kind of given the outline. Pitch decks I hear about a lot. I'm not a big fan of pitch decks because I feel like it's just an extra step for the writer. You've already, spent six months writing the script and now I gotta even spoon feed you. It more, it makes me angry, but I am in the minority. People love pitch decks, both writers and executives. What's your take on a pitch deck? I love pitch decks. I love doing that. The thing is you need to understand what writer nowadays is more than a writer, and if Sally wants to sell her script mm-hmm. She needs to be a producer. She needs to think as a producer, she needs to have tools, what producers use, even deep into budgeting and all that unpleasant stuff. So, but the pitch deck is the first thing. What you presenting to a world after writing your scripts because the pitch deck helps. A new person who haven't read your script yet, to understand your story. Because Pitch Deck gives a mood of a story. It gives like a crucial moments like, described in text. the visuals helps a lot. So where does a writer find these visuals? Do they have to hire somebody? No, you can do it yourself. So you can do it yourself. First of all, you have a folder with pictures, a mood pictures like Oh, right. You can the file on your computer. Great. Yeah. So you can put a pitch deck in PowerPoint. It's, it's a matter I don't know, an hour or two. Okay. And. You're kind of just letting the powers that be, that you are asking for money, that, Hey, I not only wrote this screenplay, I know it inside and out. I know the mood, I know the look, I know the, tone, I know what audience will wanna see this, and you're just putting it into a package. Right, because you are producing now that, that's a thing that, that's a new thing for writers. So we are, it's impossible to just, to sell your script nowadays. If you wanna make it, you have to be a producer. So you build in a package, and you start with a script, then pitch deck, then you have your poster, your, log line, and many, many our tools, what you need to present to people. Oh, Leo, this is so interesting that you said that about the poster. Now, when I was coming up, uh, this was back when there was the covered wagon. Mm-hmm. If there was artwork on the cover of the script, The writer was hiding that maybe the script wasn't as good, but look at this artwork. I'm really good at the artwork. You are saying. that's not the way. the powers that be look at things anymore. Mm-hmm. They'll look at a poster and go, wow, this is vision. I really do see it now. Where before you were only supposed to give the written word. And that was your calling card? Yes. It's just very different now. So look, I'm using postcards for example, for if I'm going for a film festival or something like this. I have a postcards it's very small. It has a visual on the front and the description on the back, like a small pitch or, you know, like one pager basically. Let's say you, drink, wine in a bar or beer in the bar, and you meet a, private investor and he asks you, what are you working on? And you say, oh, take a look. And the visuals help you. To help this person to understand what your story is about because one second, looking at the poster gives him an impression. He understands the genre, he understands the take the mood. And then if it's interesting, he turns the postcard and reads the description. And if it's interesting, if it's catching his eye, you can continue and that's a moment for you to pitch your story. Okay. All right. You got me pitch. Decks are important. Every writer should do one. as we're wrapping up here? Mm-hmm. What is the most common mistakes writers make in the first draft? Not finishing it. Hey, I love that you said that. If there's anything, anything Sally is gonna walk away with from this interview, from this podcast is you've got to finish your first draft for sure. You're so way ahead of the game when you do. Are you on social media? Yes. Instagram, Twitter, Facebook, everywhere, even TikTok. Is it your name? Yeah, Leon Danoff. Great. And where can they get the book on Amazon. And now I'm working on, Luc edition. I'm going include two more chapters into it and hopefully this version will be in the like offline stores, That is wonderful and I hope you come back and talk about the two chapters. Okay. Leo, besides having written this book and given Sally her, go ahead to write her screenplay. Spent so much time with us, Have helped our writers out there. And I just wanna say thank you so much. Thank you. And that's a wrap for the Writer's Hangout. Thanks so much for listening. If you enjoyed the show, please take a moment to leave us a review on Apple Podcasts. Your positive feedback will help us keep the show going so we can continue bringing you more future episodes. Remember, keep writing. The world needs your stories. The Writers Hangout is sponsored by the Page International Screenwriting Awards, with executive producer Kristen Overn, producer Sandy Adamides, and myself, Terry Sampson. And our music is composed by Ethan Stoller.