What Happened To Joker: Folie à Deux

What happened to Joker: Folie à Deux?  After flopping at the box office debut, receiving poor reviews and the lowest audience score in comic book movie history, Todd Phillips’s musical Joker sequel has shocked Hollywood by earning a lackluster $40 million domestically. How did this highly anticipated musical follow-up starring Joaquin Phoenix and Lady Gaga go so wrong?

Research for this article included an article from Vanity Fair’s Chris Murphy
https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/story/is-joker-folie-a-deux-bombing?utm_source=pocket_shared

Article from Variety by Tatiana Siegel
https://getpocket.com/read/9d4TVAe0g325fZa783ddhvKvf8p1gd3b286q62la3aF0ZmI8ej373V4ed33GtS71_effe7fd23bcddfaf45edeb9f92a03448

The PAGE International Screenwriting Awards sponsors the WRITERS' HANGOUT.
Executive Producer Kristin Overn
Executive Producer Sandy Adomaitis
Producer Terry Sampson
Music by Ethan Stoller

👍 If you enjoy the show, please remember to follow us and leave a review where you listen to podcasts. 

📸 Check out our IG for photos @thewritershangoutpodcast

💙 If you have an idea for the podcast or would like to comment please contact us @thewritershangoutpodcast@gmail.com 

Transcript

0:16

Hello, my name is Sandy, the social media director for the page, international Screenwriting Awards, and your host for the Writer's Hangout. A podcast that celebrates the many stages of writing, from inspiration to the first draft, revising, getting a project made and everything in between. We'll talk to the best and the brightest in the entertainment industry and create a space where you can hang out, learn from the pros, and have fun. Hey, writers, it's Sandy. Have you ever watched a movie trailer and say 30 seconds in know whether you're gonna watch the movie or not? Feels good, right? All that judgment and power in the dark eating popcorn. I personally like to go a step further and not only judge the film for myself, but also for you, the audience. And, you're welcome. I'll say to myself, that movie is not gonna be a hit. Then, when the movie comes out, and the world falls in love with it, and they won't stop talking about it, I start judging myself and think, What am I missing? How can I be so wrong? I have good taste. I like outside of the box. but years later, when I'm still judging myself, the movie sequel comes out, and if it bombs, I feel just a little bit better about myself. One of those movies for me was Joker. Everybody loved it. I hated the trailer. I tried to watch the screener, but couldn't make it to the end. The world fell in love with Joker, including the critics and the star Joaquin Phoenix And Todd Phillips received numerous awards, nomination, best director, best actor, Golden Globes, BAFTA. There was so much love for Joker. Now, the sequel has come out, Joker Foliadur, starring Joaquin Phoenix and Lady Gaga, with a reported budget of 200 million. It's opening weekend, it earned 37. 8 million. Yikes. money isn't everything. How do the critics feel? well, they're just calling it bad. That the movie is a flop in scathing terms. by the way I'm just going to call it Joker 2 from now on because that name is just too hard to pronounce for me. how did that happen? Let's go over Joker. It was written by Scott Silver, Whose previous credits are The Fighter, 8 Miles, and The Mod Squad. The Joker was directed by Todd Phillips. Todd's first on the map movie was Starsky and Hutch, and he became a big name with the Hangover franchise. Both Scott Silver and Todd Phillips have writing credits for Joker and Joker 2. Thank you. by the way I'm just going to call it Joker 2 from now on because that name is just too hard to pronounce for me. the plot of Joker. Forever alone in a crowd, failed comedian Arthur Fleck seeks connection as he walks the streets of Gotham City. Arthur wears two masks. The one he paints for his day job as a clown and the guise he projects in a futile attempt to feel like he's part of the world around him. Isolated, bullied, and disregarded by society. Fleck. begins a slow descent into madness as he transforms into the criminal mastermind known as the Joker. Now Joker 2 had the same creators, more money, and the addition of a international superstar. again, what happened? The Plot of Joker 2. Struggling with his dual identity, failed comedian Arthur Fleck meets the love of his life Harley Quinn while incarcerated at Arkham State Hospital. and of course much more. I came across an article by Variety's Tatiana Siegel who got, the inside scoop behind the scenes. I won't read the entire article, but I will link it in the show notes. I highly recommend you give it a read. in fact, when you see Tatiana Siegel's byline, always read that article. On September 30th, Lady Gaga blew kisses to fans outside the TCL Chinese Theater, ahead of the premiere of Joker 2, while Joaquin Phoenix dropped his typical solemn facade and flashed a few smiles from the red carpet. Meanwhile, Warner Bros. Discovery CEO David Sazlov, dropped by the after party at Sunset Tower and mingled with The film's two high paid lead actors, as the meatless sliders, vegan, Phoenix Idea, made the rounds. For all the star wattage on display, there were some notable no shows. Namely, DC studio toppers, James Gunn and Peter Safran. DC Studios, for the writers out there, DC Studios is the film and television production company that is part of Warner Brothers Entertainment, a subsidiary of Warner Brothers Discovery. It is responsible for the production of films, television, and animation based on characters from the comic book publishers DC Comics. So DC Comics is DC Studios. Back to the article. Insiders say the duo's glaring absence for a film that is based on one of the biggest draws in the DC canon underscores a dysfunctional dynamic that played out behind the scenes on the ill fated Warner Bros. musical. Todd Phillips wanted nothing to do with DC during the making of the film, says one agent familiar with the director's unique carve out, which allowed him to bypass any oversight from the brand's gatekeepers. Although Gunn had publicly supported the film on social media, Phillips had distanced himself from DC, as the animated title card sequence unspooled inside the iconic Hollywood cinema in the opening minutes, it became apparent that Phillips had just given DC the middle finger. There was no DC studio logo. Writers, logos are a really big deal here in the entertainment industry, especially film. studios, networks. They always have the logos. But if you're a creative, a writer, a producer, an actor, and you slogged your way to the top, and you get to have a logo, you are darn proud of that, and you should be. back to the article. Now that the dust has settled on the sequel's disastrous open weekend, plenty of soul searching is taking place on the Burbank lot. That is Warner Bros. because Warner Bros. is in Burbank. The question being asked is, Why spend 200 million to make and nearly 100 million to market a tentpole that ignores the DC fanbase? as a Rolling Stone review of the film succinctly put it, Joker 2 has a message for fans. Go F yourselves. Alas, the fanboys and fangirls stayed home, resulting in the shocking 37. 7 million domestic opening for Philip's follow up to his 2019 Joker, an enormous success That cost just 60 million and earned 1. 1 billion. Such disregard for the base has brand repercussions. After all, Joker is not some obscure character. The Batman foil is by far the most high profile villain in comics, Spanning either DC or Marvel, but given that Phillips made such a wildly profitable first Joker for Warner Brothers, not to mention the three Hangover movies, motion picture group chiefs Michael DeLuca and Pamela Abdi seemed unwilling to say no to their director with their first green light. The movie began production in December, 2022, two months After Gunn and Safran took control of DC, and many expected the duo to provide notes and feedback on the R rated musical, especially given the capital outlay involved. But Phillips balked and only would liaison with DeLuca and Abdi, and he had done little to dispel the appearance of friction, even though Gunn and Safran were on hand for the first director's cut screening for the studio. When asked by a Collider reporter if the production process had changed when the pair succeeded, D. C. head Walter Hamada, or if they had any input, Phillips replied, quote, With all due respect to them, this is kind of a Warner Bros. movie, end quote. And even Warner Bros. feedback was sometimes ignored. Insiders say Studio Brass did not want to debut the film at the Venice Film Festival as it had done with Joker. But Phillips pushed back. A Warner spokesperson says the studio fully supported the decision to bring the film to Venice. Mm hmm. Other battles of will between Phillips and Warners ensued. Phillips refused to test screen Joker 2, so its premiere in Venice marked the first time an audience saw it. The critics rejected it and the film tallied a disastrous 33 percent score on Rotten Tomatoes, well before earning a dismal on CinemaScore. to put that grade into context, the much reviled Madam Web landed a C plus earlier this year. A Warner Brothers spokesman says, given the film contains spoilers, the studios did not want to unnecessarily divulge plot points too early to test audience, but rather allow moviegoers to discover the film in their own time. Making a sequel to a million dollar movie, whether it's Aquaman or Joker, is considered a smart bet. But with its outsized budget, which include 20 million upfront for Phoenix, 20 million for Phillips, and 20 million for Gaga, the film needed to make at least 450 million theatrically to break even. Now, an unlikely scenario. Warner Brothers is already on the back foot following a series of recent money losers including Furioso, a Mad Max saga, Aquaman and the Lost Kingdom, and The Color Purple. the parent's company stock price remains in the cellar, an all time low at 7. 67 a share. This is a black eye for Warner Brothers at a key time with the industry expecting a hit, says Wall Street analyst Dave Ives of Wedbush Securities. The timing could not be worse. That is the end of the article and here are my two thoughts. Maybe it's time to buy that stock. 7. 67 a share is good. It's gonna go up. And, I think I was right all along about Joker. And that's a wrap for the Writer's Hangout. Thanks so much for listening. If you enjoyed the show, please take a moment to leave us a review on Apple Podcasts. Your positive feedback will help us keep the show going so we can continue bringing you more future episodes. Remember, keep writing. The world needs your stories. The Writers Hangout is sponsored by the Page International Screenwriting Awards, with executive producer Kristen Overn, producer Sandy Adamides, and myself, Terry Sampson. And our music is composed by Ethan Stoller.